speaking of john hagee...

from dec 20 2000

Message #704 of 30961 group/Negative-Capability
deb wrote:
Re: [Negative-Capability] Fw: [AnInformedPublic] Cheney shatters
Clinton push for peace in Israel

Nietzsche and Goethe also very big influences on Carl Jung, even Oscar Wilde. Wagner is the only one I can think of who was rabidly and consciously involved in myth making in the same destructive vein as Hitler. But then, eugenics was just part of the late 19th early 20th C. The planning for 'The Shape of Things to Come' was something Wells learned to regret, something GBShaw is now pulled over the coals for. But it was just part of the thinking, a natural part of early Socialist problem solving-- trying to plan, an attempt at making the world better. Oh yes: full of good intentions! That it turned into the final solution was all shadow projection, positivism, possession and obsession. The Dark isn't dangerous, but our attitude toward it can be. Same goes for the Light. Ultima Thule and the grail myth were turned into something diabolical when they were married to complexes. But these things are not intrinsically diabolical.

(Not that I belive in devils at all...)

It's exactly what Jung addresses in The Spirit Mercurius.

One of the first groups Hitler came for (and I had a lovely old Swiss man write me about this): The Freemasons. Why? Because Masonry was the 'study of the science of symbols.' Freemasonry understood ritual and metaphor as keys to the inner self through the EXPERIENCE of the Divine as the ineffable numen. Scripture was understood in the Deistic sense of a mortal heart speaking as the divine moves it.* Yes, pure Jung. I can't think of anyone more pointedly Masonic than Jung -- whose grandfather was a Swiss Grandmaster Mason (George Washington was the first GM in the US).

So... it wasn't these writers who were dangerous, but they way they were fed into an already sick, archetype possessed group of people who supposed their intuition was -- like everything they did, infallible -- the infallible work of "the only true deity."

Lord knows, we have that here, now. Even Newt is undstanding they've created a Frankenstein in the radical Christian Right. I'm praying, as they are, that the moderates in their party can get hold of this mad and slippery thing they've fed. A mass mind with all the potential destructiveness of the Nazis.

Atlantic Monthly has a big story this month (that I can't get to scan!) on the Goddess and the Scholars: Debunking the Goddess myth. You fools, you crazy cultists! That's one of their Al Gore straw men: WE "NewAgers" "worship" mother earth and want "one world". Well -- jeez. What is, is! It's the worship thing they're stuck on. Symbols speak to us. As symbols.

The toad preacher John Hagee(?) on the Christian Network gave an especially rabid speech last night, saying we can choose God's law (their patriarchal spin if the Bible ala Handmaid's Tale) or 'the law of the jungle.' They are ready to go onto the Next Level of Christianity. He told some whoppers about the meaning of 'The International Year of the Child"... "...allows children to sue their parents, encourages them to buy condom... they don't know the last three presidents when the graduate, but they've got a diploma and a condom!" On and on... But what got me was the look in the eyes of the people listening. It wasn't Christian love. It was hate.

----- Original Message -----
From: mike
Subject: Re: [Negative-Capability] Fw: [AnInformedPublic] Cheney shatters
Clinton push for peace in Israel

mary wrote:
| > Goethe and Nietsczhe (can't spell) were part of its happening if I'm not
| > mistaken? Hitler was more than a man with big hypnotic eyes and an
| > irritating voice, he was a man in a time and a place who was close to
the
| > collective unconscious and used it -- I bet he thought that was love --
| > including its mythology and sacred texts. Goethe and Nietschze were
among
| > the sacred texts. Also: Struwwelpeter.
| *Unfortunately all too true.
|
| m
|
|
| "....several things dovetailed in my mind, & at once it struck me, what
| quality went to form a Man of Achievement especially in Literature &
| which Shakespeare possessed so enormously -- I mean Negative Capability,
| that is when man is capable of being in uncertainties, Mysteries,
| doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact & reason -- " ~John
Keats

*which applies to all, yes?
In the floods of life, in the storm of work,
In Ebb and flow,
In warp and weft,
Cradle and grave,
An eternal sea,
A changing patchwork,
A glowing life,
At the whirring loom of Time I weave
The living clothes of the Deity.
~Goethe, the Earth Spirit to Faust

SYMBOLS, beloved.

That which is creative, creates itself. ~John Keats

---

Message #672 of 30961
the original article:

deb wrote:


As expected.

Let's see... it's all falling into place. Bush will make a fine antichrist,
war in the middle east, the restoration of the Temple of Solomon... then the
Righteous get to watch all of us burn from their heavenly vaunt. Should
make them all very happy.

That ain't my God, folks. And it ain't the mask 'he' wants to wear.
Yahweh's very tired of the whole drama. I wonder how far they can project
this shadow, though?

What are we to do alice, mary, carroll, mike, anand, phoebe -- all my
friends who see beyond what I can see as Hanging Man? I think I'm here to
usher paradox in and out, to remain a zwitterion. How do I keep faith?
Because I do somehow. We have to. I'll hang... the tree will blossom on
its own. I'll smell their scent. But maybe watered with tears of -- love?

| http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=003864436460684&rtmo=qxqJudp9&atmo=rr
| rrrrrq&pg=/et/00/12/18/wmid18.html
|
| 18 December 2000
|
| Cheney shatters Clinton push for peace in Israel
| By Patrick Bishop in Jerusalem
|
| AN attempt to salvage a Middle East peace deal in the dying days of
| the Clinton presidency appeared seriously undermined last night as
| the incoming administration said recent American diplomacy had
| hindered a settlement.
|
| Israeli and Palestinian delegations are expected to go to Washington
| this week to try to find common ground that could pave the way for a
| peace summit. Both sides are due to hold separate talks with American
| officials in the first serious attempt to resume negotations, which
| have been in abeyance since the Palestinian uprising erupted in the
| West Bank and Gaza Strip at the end of September.
|
| The already slim chances of success were reduced further yesterday
| when Vice-President-elect Dick Cheney voiced the incoming
| administration's "concerns that the way the Clinton administration
| operated in the [last] year or so in the Middle East has made it more
| difficult to reach a settlement".
|
| He singled out the decision to put the future of Jerusalem, one of
| the most intractable of the many issues under negotiation, at the
| centre of the failed summit at Camp David last July. He made it clear
| that the Bush presidency had its own ideas about how to "regenerate"
| the peace process, which he said had now broken down.
|
| On the face of it, the parties have an interest in reaching
| agreements before President Clinton steps down on January 20. Ehud
| Barak was eager to strike a deal that would allow him to show
| substantial progress in building peace with the Palestinians in
| advance of an election for prime minister in early February which on
| current form he is expected to lose.
|
| Yasser Arafat, the Palestinian leader, had the choice of doing
| business with Mr Barak or waiting until after the poll, which in the
| absence of a peace breakthrough seems certain to result in a
| hardliner at the Israeli helm. Yesterday he said he was willing to
| meet Mr Barak to talk peace.
|
| Mr Clinton was anxious to see some results from a process which had
| absorbed much of his energy since he decided to try to forge a solid
| Middle East settlement as his lasting presidential legacy. That hope
| would now seem to be unrealistic following Mr Cheney's intervention.
|
| Despite the peace rumblings blood continued to flow yesterday with
| Israeli soldiers shooting dead Iyad Daoud, 27, and Ahmed Al-Kassas,
| 38, in the Gaza Strip near the border with Egypt. Palestinians said
| they had been going to the rescue of another man who had been shot
| and wounded. The army said they had returned fire after coming under
| attack.
|
| A leader of Mr Arafat's Fatah group was killed in a mysterious
| explosion at the Kalandiya refugee camp near Jerusalem. Fatah
| officials said Sami Mala'b eh, 28, was the latest victim of an
| Israeli assassination campaign against activists. The army had no
| official comment about the incident.